The last thing I ever thought I would do at U of T was write for UV. I told a friend I had been asked to write this article and she responded (direct quote) “whoa…hahahaha.” I include this only to emphasize how passionately I feel about public sector work—I’m willing to do the totally unexpected and actually give back to my fellow law students.
Finding my way to the public sector
Like so many of us, I came to law school thinking that I wanted to work in the public sector. During my first year, I volunteered at a legal clinic and for a PBSC project committed to creating and promoting public interest opportunities for law students. During my 1L summer, I worked at the legal clinic where I had volunteered. Everything was on track; I was certain of my future in the public sector.
I bet you can guess what happened next. One night during my 1L summer, I downloaded the list of 2L summer employers who would be hiring through the November process—page after page of full-service firms, and no government Ministries/public sector employers that excited me. The public sector options were almost exclusively litigation-focused, and that was not what I wanted.
Swept along by a keen fear of unemployment, I applied everywhere that would let me do solicitor work. I did a lot of OCIs. I did a lot of in-firms. Endless interviews followed by endless dinners. To be honest, it was all a blur by that point. The only moment I can remember with clarity is a thought I had when I was walking Wednesday morning from one 3rd (or was it 4th…) interview to the next—“what the hell am I doing here?“ Needless to say I didn’t get an offer Wednesday evening.
After a bit of cold calling and a lucky break, I landed a 2L summer position in the private sector. At that point, I didn’t even care where it was because I was so happy to be employed. I tried to put my original dream of public sector to bed.
I started my 2L summer job. It was fine—really. One day, out of curiosity more than anything, I checked the CDO articling guide. Wow. All of the public sector organizations and government Ministries that I had been so excited about in 1L were hiring. There were dozens of places I wanted to apply. The rest is history—I turned down my firm’s articling offer, applied broadly to public sector employers and ended up with my dream position. It happened for me and it can happen for you.
If you decided not to consider public sector work based on the options available during the 2L recruit, consider giving public sector work a second thought. At least in my opinion, the most exciting public sector employers wait until the articling process to hire students. If you do take a private sector 2L summer job, remember that you don’t have to accept an articling offer. Be proactive about your future; don’t feel confined by past choices.
The nitty-gritty of public sector work
Now that I’ve hopefully piqued your interest in public sector opportunities, I want to focus on some of the things that may be holding you back. Many students are scared of a public sector career, at least initially, because they think they won’t be paid well, the work won’t be challenging or that it will be hard to get a long-term position. There is partial truth in these concerns.
Pay – Public sector employers have widely varying pay scales for summer and articling students. The good news is that much of this information is available online. The short answer is that you will be paid less than if you were working on Bay Street. However, in almost all cases you will be paid a comfortable salary that allows you to service your law school debt. For instance, articling students for the Province of Ontario or Federal government are paid approximately $1,200/week.
Calibre of work – At almost any public sector employer, both the people you work with and the work you do will be top-notch. If you are interested in criminal work, this is self-evident. For other areas, it is only necessary to remember that the Federal and Provincial governments (and the City of Toronto) have incredibly complex litigation, transactional and policy work needs. Most public sector employers have relatively small numbers of summer and articling students. This, combined with the lack of formal “billable hours” gives students the opportunity to work more closely with senior lawyers on interesting, complex work.
Long-term career prospects – The future is inherently uncertain. Unfortunately, it is especially uncertain for public sector lawyers. Getting hired into a permanent position by most public sector employers is an ordeal. Politics and budget play an outsize role in comparison to your actual job performance. Most likely, you’ll have to suffer through several short-term positions before you are offered a permanent position. The same, however, is true of the private sector. No firms guarantee hireback, and even for firms with high hireback percentages, many first year associates quietly leave within their first year. It’s also necessary to remember that many public sector legal positions have a direct private sector counterpart—if you summer and/or article in the public sector, you are a competitive candidate for equivalent private sector work. Compared to your peers in big firms, you likely gained more of the practical skills required by the types of employers who typically hire young lawyers.
The mechanics of getting the job
Now that I’ve convinced you to give public sector work a second glance and addressed some of your fears, here’s a practical guide to landing your dream public sector position.
Different public sector employers have incredibly different interview styles and procedures. For example, take these three interview experiences I had in the public sector:
- Employer #1: 1st interview – 30 minutes, primarily behavioural questions and a simple question about what the office does. 2nd interview – cocktail reception for 2 hours, one-on-one discussion with head of office. 3rd interview – lunch with senior legal counsel and head of office.
- Employer #2: 1st interview – 10 minute prepared presentation, (“why hire me?”), 20 minutes behavioural questions and a question about the challenges facing the office. No additional interviews.
- Employer #3: 1st interview – 40 minutes behavioural questions (no substantive questions). 2nd interview – 15 minute tour of the office.
As you can see, the interviews are typically shorter than private sector interviews. 2nd and 3rd interviews are less common, but do exist. While the public sector does not have a uniform interviewing approach, a few general pieces of advice apply across the board:
- Many employers will send you detailed instructions about the interview process and tell you how to prepare. Read these emails carefully! Respond to the email and ask for clarification if necessary.
- Reach out to upper year students to get more information about the interview process at the particular place you will be interviewing. The CDO can provide you the name of a student who interviewed with a particular employer.
- The CDO has a really useful guide filled with sample interview questions for each employer. In my experience, this guide is spot on. In short, be prepared to answer:
- Why do you want to work here?
- What are three challenges facing the employer?
- Please explain an SCC decision of your choice.
- While public sector interviews are intended to be a non-biased assessment of your skills and knowledge, be sure to show your passion for public sector work in general, and that employer in particular.
- It is impossible to be too prepared for a public sector interview. When in doubt, prepare some more.
With the help of other great 3Ls, I have compiled detailed preparation suggestions for the largest public sector employers:
| Civil Litigation
My interview with Crown Law Office – Civil was substantive and consisted of a series of standard questions. The substantive questions covered issues relating to civil procedure and ethics. There were also behavioural questions requiring candidates to outline how they would approach various problems such as conflicting demands, organization, time management and ethical dilemmas. One particular question that is asked every year is “what is the role of Crown counsel?” The substantive and ethical questions can be prepared in advance by knowing something about civil procedure, LSUC’s code of ethics and researching the duties of Crown counsel as opposed to a private lawyer.
The interviewers are looking for people who are capable of working independently but also aren’t afraid to ask for help when necessary. Remember, legal work is often team work. There were also a series of questions asking about experience in litigation and general interest in civil litigation as opposed to criminal litigation. The interviewers want to know why you are interested in civil litigation particularly and what sort of experience you have. Legal clinic work and other practical experience in advocacy are highly valued.
The CLOC interview definitely requires substantive preparation but the questions are fair and not designed to trick anyone.
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Legal Clinics (Legal Aid Ontario)If you’re interviewing at LAO, make sure you’re familiar with its mandate, including its governing statute. It’s a scored panel interview, primarily behavioural, but there are some semi-substantive questions. (There is not, however, a fact pattern as you may encounter in some MAG interviews). LAO only does the one interview; you won’t have to go to all kinds of awkward crappy events or jump through stupid social hoops that are designed to monopolize your time.
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| Criminal
Criminal law substantive government interviews require a lot of preparation – they can be pretty intense! I reviewed my criminal law notes from first year, my criminal procedure notes and evidence summaries from upper year students, as well as the sample questions provided by the CDO and a few recent SCC and ONCA cases.
The best advice I can give is to take a second and think about the question before you answer it. Most of the interviewers will allow you to skip the question and come back to it later if you can’t remember the answer right away. The interviewers like to challenge you on your answers, even when you are right, so stick to your answers and be firm. If you do not know the answer, say so and then tell them how you would figure out the answer.
In government interviews, everyone feels that they got something wrong so don’t let that feeling get you down. And remember—unlike people doing private firm interviews, you get to go home and relax after the interview is done because there are no social events or call backs to stress you out even more! (Alana Pasut, 3L)
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Line ministries and “other” public sector employers
A “line Ministry” is a provincial Ministry that implements government programs and policies in a particular area. Examples include the Ministry of Labour and the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing (alas, there is no Ministry of Magic in Canada.) “Other” public sector employers include places like the City of Toronto.
Different line ministries and “other” public sector employers have different interview techniques, although important similarities exist. You will primarily be asked behavioural questions: either how you would respond to a particular hypothetical situation or an example of a time when you exhibited a certain quality. While you should know the general jurisdiction of the employer and what they do, it is unnecessary to memorize a long list of statutes that the employer administers. You will likely be asked about current issues facing the Ministry.
Like other public sector employers, it is acceptable to skip a question and return to it later. This is less useful, however, since most questions won’t really have a “right” or “wrong” answer. (Robin Bates, 3L) |
