Interview with Owen Goddard and Janani Shanmuganathan — partners in life and law!
Maintaining a relationship on top of schoolwork, extracurriculars, mooting, recruits, job searching, and personal health is no easy feat. On March 5, Ultra Vires sat down with Owen Goddard and Janani Shanmuganathan, partners at Goddard & Shanmuganathan LLP, to discuss their relationship during law school.
Goddard and Shanmuganathan graduated from U of T Law in 2012 and 2011, respectively. They have been together for over a decade and will celebrate their seventh wedding anniversary in August.
This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
Janani Shanmuganathan and Owen Goddard on their wedding day. Credit: Janani Shanmuganathan (2014)
Ultra Vires (UV): How did you meet?
Janani Shanmuganathan (JS): We met in the third year of our undergrad. We were both in the criminology program at U of T.
UV: When did you start dating?
Owen Goddard (OG): We started dating in September 2008. [Janani] was in her first year of law school at Osgoode. I was taking a year off between undergrad and law school to write the LSAT and do the things you need to do to get into law school. I applied to U of T and got in. Janani had applied to U of T but did not get in, but she transferred in second year to U of T. So when I was in my first year in 2009, she was already in her second year at U of T.
JS: To clarify, I did not transfer for him!
UV: How did you balance law school and your relationship?
OG: I mean, now we have a firm together. We’ve completely merged our work-life and previous school-life with the relationship — we don’t have very good boundaries with that kind of stuff. That is one of the challenges with doing your life like this. It’s great though — you will always feel supported and have a partner you can talk to about everything. When I was at law school and I was taking Evidence, Janani already took it. Or I had a problem at work and I could talk to her, and vice versa. That part is great. But then you also never feel separated from it. It’s Saturday afternoon and you’re there with your wife who’s also your business partner, or your fiance but also your colleague or classmate. It’s a little bit tough sometimes.
UV: Did you take any classes together while at the Faculty?
JS: We never took any law school courses together but both Owen and I were in the joint program at U of T Law, where you can complete the JD with a Masters in Criminology. Both of us knew we wanted to practice criminal law, probably ever since undergrad. That was the reason I transferred, because U of T offered this joint program. We might have taken some Masters courses together.
UV: Do you have a favourite memory together from U of T Law?
JS: There was a summer we were both research assistants and we’d spend so much time at the library together. We’d have a nice routine — get our bagels on Charles [Street], get lunch everyday, etc.
OG: The food court at the ROM was pretty good back then, and we used to go there for lunch sometimes.
JS: It was just a nice summer because it was warm out so we could go for walks and just sit next to each other at the library while we did our respective research. I feel like that’s what we do now too — we sit next to each other and do our work. Not much has changed!
Owen Goddard and Janani Shanmuganathan during their law school days. Credit: Janani Shanmuganathan (2010).
UV: You two now run a successful firm together, Goddard & Shanmuganathan LLP. Did you always intend to run a firm together?
OG: It definitely wasn’t the intention. There’re some people who go to U of T and have their entire 20-year career plan mapped out, and it usually never goes according to plan, but they at least have it mapped out. We didn’t know. I wanted to do criminal law, she wanted to do criminal law, but we didn’t know what that was actually like, let alone starting your own firm. It wasn’t the plan.
We started working together two or three years ago. I started a firm out of law school with my friend from U of T Law, Justin Nasseri (JD ‘12). After a year or so, Janani joined us, since she got to that point in her career where it made sense to go out on her own. Just last month in February, we started the firm together. Justin left to work with other civil lawyers and Janani and I are now doing criminal defense as the two of us.
UV: I saw on your site that you refer to your firm as a family business. You touched on this earlier, but what is it like running a firm with your partner?
JS: I think it’s really good. Since we both do the same thing, I’ve always found that if we worked at different places, we’d be at work doing work and then come home and talk about work. Now we just do the same work together. There is so much more leisure time since we already talked about work.
There’s also such a level of trust. We think of it as a family unit, so whatever we do is for the family and especially now that we’re thinking of having children, there’s a lot more flexibility and control over our schedules and lives.
OG: I think the funnest thing either of us have done in our careers so far is arguing a case at the Supreme Court together in fall of 2019. It was just so cool to be in that courtroom together and to both argue for the first time at the Supreme Court. She watched me and then I watched her. We’ve also done some really hard trials together. There’s something really nice about being in a courtroom as a criminal defense lawyer defending people charged with some serious stuff — that can be very stressful and scary but having that other person there with you is really nice. We’re lucky we were able to start this business together and do these things.
JS: It’s like you have your own personal cheerleader in the courtroom. When I saw Owen argue when we were doing Williams together, I remember feeling so much pride, love, and admiration. It was kinda nice because I couldn’t stress or worry about my own anxiety since I was so engrossed in what Owen was doing, and was so happy he was doing well. It gave me courage when I came up because I knew Owen did well and he was supporting me.
Owen Goddard and Janani Shanmuganathan at the Supreme Court of Canada to defend R v Williams. Credit: Janani Shanmuganathan (2019).
UV: Do you have any advice for maintaining a relationship during and after law school?
JS: Based on my personal experience, I think there is this competitive nature in law school. You’re constantly comparing yourself to your peers, but it’s really important that you don’t do that with your partner. It’s not something Owen did, but I feel like I compared us. Owen is very smart — he clerked at the Supreme Court of Canada and did many wonderful things — and I couldn’t help but feel like I didn’t measure up. Rather than being truly happy for his success, it made me feel like I wasn’t as successful.
Looking back, I think those feelings had more to do with my self-esteem. Now I just feel really happy that Owen got to do these cool things. It worked out for both of us in the end. That’s why I’m appreciative of having a firm together because his success is my own success. It’s all part of the family.
