Students speak out about their recruit experiences
Do you have any comments on the CDO’s services during the recruitment process?
Most students noted that the CDO was helpful in providing career-related services and information regarding the Bay Street firms:
- “Mock interviews with the CDO were incredibly helpful. The CDO also provided a warm and comforting environment on top of all the useful information they give us.”
- “Extremely helpful for traditional full-service Bay Street positions, but a bit less [so] when it comes to boutiques and government jobs. That said, I don’t think I would have gotten the job without their support.”
However, with regards to other types of employers, many respondents were less pleased:
- “Not helpful for public interest hopefuls. Not many opportunities to receive information outside of info sessions.”
- “Crim[inal] materials are extremely outdated.”
- “Wish there was more information and institutional knowledge about government jobs.”
Some thought the CDO could have done a better job in other respects:
- “I would have appreciated a more critical look at my application materials (i.e. cover letter, resume, etc.). I very much appreciated them being available by phone on call day, as I had firms unexpectedly call and my plans were turned upside down.”
- “They…conveyed basic information, including which LSO rules the firm’s must follow and which rules we must follow. However, that definitely was not adequate preparation. I wish they noted how often firms do NOT follow those rules and can be very self-interested in the process / lead students on. The CDO should have told us that, so that students know not to rely [on] firms even when they basically convey a ‘pre-offer.’
- “The written resources are sometimes out of date which makes them not helpful and even dangerous as tools.”
Do you have any comments on networking?
Some hated it:
- “The emphasis on it is not great for us introverts.”
- “I hate it and did not do it. I got a job.”
- “Networking is so fake because the firms and I both know I’m only doing it to name-drop and show my interest, as if applying isn’t enough to show that in the first place.”
Some didn’t think it made a difference:
- “Not sure how useful they were—out of 6 OCI firms, I did not network with 5 of them.”
- “If you have relatively good grades and some experience, I don’t think that networking is as critical as people make it sound. The OCI offers seemed to be made to people with good grades, regardless of whether they networked or not.”
Some thought it was beneficial:
- “There was a very strong correlation between not networking at a firm and not receiving an OCI offer from them.”
- “I found coffee chats with students much more helpful. I think being able to name drop someone I had meaningful conversations with helped me in writing successful cover letters.”
- “I think networking is critical in this process for getting a sense of the firm and their culture.”
And others:
- “Oof.”
- “Love it! Best thing you can do.”
Do you have any comments on receptions, lunches, or dinners?
Many respondents highlighted the importance of attending these events for multiple reasons:
- “If you are seriously considering an employer you must attend these events. This is a great way to assess your fit and see if you generally click with others in that office. (Hint: if you wanna run away after 15 minutes, that’s a good indication that you don’t wanna work there).”
- “I think your performance in the interview will determine how useful a dinner will be. A dinner performance won’t save a lacklustre interview. A stellar interview gets you some leeway to be a bit less ‘on’ than the next candidate at dinner.”
- “I think it might be useful if you are a marginal candidate at the interviews, but you kill it at the dinner. The dinner setting creates additional opportunity to show what a nice/thoughtful/interesting candidate you are, and to sway one or two people to go to bat for you when they’re making the hiring decisions.”
Some respondents were treated inappropriately:
- “A male partner at a firm playing footsy with me under the table all night at an individual dinner despite my moving away.”
- “I went to a reception at a smaller firm where I was treated with some of the worst sexism I have encountered in my professional life, and that also helped me narrow down my options and focus more on better firms.”
And others:
- “A wholly unnecessary and vapid exercise. Stop wasting our damn time.”
- “I didn’t go to any #feelsbadman.”
Inappropriate questions or comments
Comments:
- “I was asked by private firms where else I was interviewing and if my week was busy.”
- “Undue pressure to indicate that a firm was my first choice.”
- “They asked age-related questions. I’m a much older student, and it outed me as such.”
- “I was trying to split between NY and Toronto… [o]ne firm asked me straight up what my 10-year plan was. Another started the interview by saying ‘you must be a pro at this by now.’”
- “My Associate Host at one firm told me I should cancel a first-round interview I had Tuesday if I want a better chance with her firm.”
What advice would you give to someone participating in the process next year?
On finding the firm for you:
- “Only apply to places you actually want to work. Being ingenuine [sic] gets you nowhere, and employers can see right through it—if not at the cover letter stage, then at the interview stage.”
- “Start networking early, even if it makes you uncomfortable. Use these as data points to answer the question ‘why us?’ at the OCI and in-firms—your answer will be much more substantial, and you will have a better understanding of where you want to end up.”
- “You are there to interview them, as much as they are there to interview you. Remember that you have a choice too. You are not a job-beggar who has to take whatever comes your way. Look out for your future self, and don’t put yourself in a position where you have to summer at a place you hate.”
On playing “the game”:
- “Be resistant to pressure, and play the game all the way to the end. The firms aren’t people and they won’t get their feelings hurt if you decline their offer.”
- “The firms are snakes, trust no one, they will screw you over.”
- “Don’t fully invest time and interest only in one firm. The firms are self-interested and often lead on more students than can fit in there summer class.”
- “The game sucks, but you have to play it when you’re between a rock and a hard place.”
Some comments were more more academically focused:
- “Get good grades because that seems to be the biggest factor.”
- “It’s so fucking random. There is no rule or magic. Maybe if you have all HHs.”
- “An LP is not a death sentence! I ended up with 10+ OCIs, more in-firms that I could fit and a job offer with the dreaded LP in my transcript. I did have some Hs/HHs to balance out the LP, so that likely helped.”
And the most practical advice of all:
- “Don’t forget to sleep and eat.”
And most importantly, don’t forget to be yourself:
- “Just be yourself and know that not getting a job isn’t the end of the world—it makes you much less stressed during the process and, as a result, stay calm and friendly.”
- “Go with your gut. Tune out the chatter about Seven Sisters and just focus on figuring out what’s best for you. At the end of the day, I had to think to myself, ‘where can I see myself in ten years?’ and make a decision based on that.”
- “In my opinion, what you SHOULD do is be yourself. If an employer decides not to hire you purely because of your personality or your interests, that is their problem and frankly, their loss. There is a lot of pressure in this process to make concessions, lower your standards, or conform to stereotypes that don’t match who you are. I would encourage you to block out the noise and stay true to yourself and your own priorities.”
What did you not want your interviewers to know about you?
Responses varied:
- “That I really cared about work/life balance.”
- “The extent of my religious participation.”
- “Mental health issues.”
- “That they gave me my only interview.”
- “I am not willing to work 12+ hours every day.”
- “That I am in fact an alien from Mars.”
- “I would stay at your place for life if you hired me.”
- “Planning to leave in 5 years.”
But one respondent stood out:
- “When talking to a boutique, I was reluctant to communicate that I had some lingering fears about closing doors for myself in terms of never trying other kinds of work. I actually ended up telling them this on the second day and was glad I did—the act of saying it out loud put pressure on me to ask the questions that really mattered to me and I ended up accepting their offer.”
What, if anything, would you change about the recruitment process?
The most common criticisms were using phone calls to schedule in-firms, the frenetic and lengthy nature of in-firm week, and the short turnaround to make a decision on offers. Many contrasted it with the New York process:
- “The fixed deadline/cooling off period just seems to make things worse. Making the offers open for 28 days like in NY would get rid of most of the pressure tactics used by firms and allow them to only recruit students they give an offer.”
- “The entire thing. The frenetic pace of this process serves no one and just drains students, leaving people to fall through the cracks without offers. The system needs a complete overhaul.”
- “Give us longer to make a choice on an offer. Find more firms to do OCIs. This process is sadistic. I’ve never been more devastated over something so insignificant in my life.”
- “Removing the wining and dining completely and just do interviews.”
- “It is way too stressful to pack everything into 2 and a half days of interviews, dinners, receptions and coffee chats. I prefer the NY recruitment system, where you get to book your interviews over the course of a few weeks and given 28 days to make a decision, so no stress in accepting on the spot.”
- “Why are we still doing calls? Seems like there should be some sort of online system. Waterloo, Laurier, etc. have co-op systems that do substantially similar functions.”
- “Get rid of OCIs entirely. If other jurisdictions can weed out candidates by looking only at resumes, Toronto should be able to as well.”
- “I wish that employers were only allowed to schedule 2 interviews or 1 interview, 1 dinner, and 1 reception. The race to monopolize candidate’s time is annoying and exhausting.”
Did employers not follow LSO Procedures, and how?
Shout-out to Daniel:
- “I don’t know if this is breaking the LSO procedures (cuz [sic] I never read them), but it annoyed me, so here it goes: I interviewed with [employer]. I didn’t get an ITC or a PFO, but I was hoping I still had a chance at an in-firm. I got a call from them at 8:02 on call day. They asked me if they were speaking to Daniel. My name is not Daniel, so I said, “no, this is John Doe”. They said “Oh, sorry, wrong number”, and hung up. Bruh [sic] how do screw something like that up? Anyway shout-out to Daniel—hope you killed it.”
Do you have any comments on the LSO Recruitment Procedures?
Although some praised the LSO Recruitment Procedures, the vast majority of respondents criticized it for not protecting students. Multiple respondents questioned the efficacy of these rules when there were not proper enforcement mechanisms in place:
- “Need substantial work. They don’t protect students—pressuring is inevitable and because we have the first choice card firms want you to play it constantly. Thank you emails should also be prohibited—let students sleep and then they will be rested for the important choice.”
- “It is astonishing this is the product of regulation and not some massive free market failure.”
- “I get the need for packing everything in a 3-day in-firm period but it causes a whole load of stress and exhaustion, [to] the point where it is damaging to some people’s mental health.”
- “How are they enforced?”
- “They only barely help, but they are better than nothing.”
Are you satisfied with the outcome?
Responses for this question were mostly polarized:
- “I didn’t get my first or second choice, but I’m very happy with my offer and decision.”
- “Yes, but emotionally exhausted.”
- “I don’t have a job and I just wasted months of my life on stress I could have avoided by not participating at all.”
Some were more frustrated if anything:
- “I don’t feel like I got a chance to demonstrate my skillset/abilities. It feels like I didn’t get a single in firm because I’m not as outgoing/charismatic as other students—not because I wouldn’t be just as good at the job.”
- “Bruh [sic] I didn’t get a job. I didn’t even get an OCI at a firm I had worked for before I came to law school. How does that happen? Maybe everyone there lowkey hated me smh hahaha…Someone I know who had the exact same grades as me, similar extra curricular stuff, no networking, and a generic cover letter for each firm got 8 more OCI’s than me (we applied to essentially the same firms, except I applied to government stuff)…He’s a beauty so no hate or anything but yea wasn’t expecting to only get 8 OCI’s at private firms (the other 3 were government).”
How did your interest in a legal career change as a result of the recruit?
Some were inspired:
- “I have a job I’m excited about, and I can actually picture myself having a fulfilling and balanced career in law for the first time since starting law school.”
- “Process was a lot of fun. If this kind of hustling is part of big law, count me in.”
- “I frankly got a little misty-eyed listening to a lawyer talk about why they went into litigation. It put this crazy law school journey into perspective and emphasized to me that I might be entering into a career where I will genuinely love what I do for many, many years to come.”
- “Before this process, I was dreading a legal career at a beige office in some transactional group at a full-service firm. I never thought I’d be proud of the work I am going to do. Now, I’m looking forward to a long career in an area of law that I am proud to become a part of. I don’t think I’ve ever been more excited.”
Others, not so much:
- “Lawyers look like their souls have been sucked out of them.”
- “I have lost respect for many of these firms because of the way they treat students during the recruitment period.”
- “This process worsened my view of legal recruiting, but didn’t affect my interest in pursuing a legal career more generally.”
Do you have any closing thoughts?
- “There is so much anxiety around the correct way to do things and a lot of pressure that the 2L is where “everyone” gets a job. It might be worth starting initiatives like a third-year “recruit buddy” you know you can text during in-firms and who will help you find the resources you need. We should also provide ongoing support to those who don’t find positions in the formal recruit.”
- “This process is not as bad as some people make it seem. Just be yourself, get through it, and don’t buy into all the noise, horror stories, and bad experiences that other people had because it’s a very personal process.”
- “The process is terrible. It isn’t set up to help firms or students get information or make the best choice. It seems like the process is only what it is because it’s some rite of passage and everyone else has done it.”
- “The whole recruitment process feels very archaic, like we’re serfs who have to appease a lord with an offering of our best cow.”
- “Sorry to everyone who saw me ugly-crying in the PATH on Wednesday morning!”
- “People that were more qualified than me didn’t get offers. I didn’t get interviews/ offers from places that I think I was a great candidate for. It’s all so random.”
- “TRUST YOUR GUT—If you feel uncomfortable somewhere, don’t ignore it but think long and hard about whether a job is worth feeling like you can’t be yourself around people who you will ultimately spend a lot of time with. Also, while I was successful in the process, I think its arbitrariness unfortunately leads many great candidates to fall through the cracks.”
Remember to take care of yourself, and each other:
- “They say this recruit isn’t everything, but fellow students sure make it feel as though it is.”
- “Please, look after yourself. This means looking after your well being during interviews (I would say 20 is the max for OCIs, and 5 is the max for in-firms), and also your future well being in the summer job. It’s better to not have an OCI offer than to be stuck doing something you don’t like, in an environment you don’t like.”
And from a couple students that did not participate in the recruit:
- “Looks like I dodged a clown fiesta.”
- “Toronto recruit is cruel.”
